Hi (again), I'm Zack, and this is my blog. Have a look at the most recent posts below, or browse the tag cloud here on the right.

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Fresh from the oven, monthly report of what I've been working on as DPL during January 2012.


Dear Developers,
here is another monthly report of what happened in DPL-land, this time for January 2012. There's quite a bit to report about --- including an insane amount of legal-ish stuff --- so please bear with me. Or not.

Legal stuff

  • Webmaster heroes have decided to tackle the long standing issues of copyright and licensing of the Debian website. I've accepted to help them out in reaching consensus with license choice and I'm happy to report that we've managed to pick a DFSG-free license (BSD-ish) for future contributions. Webmasters will soon contact contributors to re-license old contributions (or get rid of them), so hopefully will have a DFSG-free website RSN. Many thanks go to David Prévot for successfully tackling such a can of worms.

  • I've sought a second legal advice on the constraints that trademarks (might) impose on the work-flow of a distro like Debian. Luckily, it is coherent with one I've sought in the past so I'm now in condition to wrap up the "trademark vs DFSG" thread on -project with the missing legal information. Hopefully, I'll find time to do that sometime next week.

  • I've restarted discussions with the Debian France association so that they can become a Debian Trusted Organization (as per Constitution §9.3). Members of the board of the association seem to be interested and I'm positive it could happen fairly soon. The importance of this is that we could use a back-up association in Europe to hold Debian assets, to complement the services that FFIS are already offering us.

  • Thanks to the contributions of Benjamin Mako Hill and SPI lawyers, I've now what I consider a final draft of a trademark policy for Debian trademarks. Before proposing it to you, I'm waiting for some feedback from another umbrella organization for Free Software projects, that is working on a trademark policy for all their associated projects. As many Free Software projects are seeking trademark protection these days, I see benefits in having uniform (and sane!) policies. I hope to be able to gather the feedback I still miss this week-end at FOSDEM, and let you know shortly after that. Once this is done, we'll also be able to (finally!) relicense all kinds of Debian logos under a DFSG-free license.

    On this front, I've also updated http://www.debian.org/trademark with the information needed to contact us about trademark usage; hopefully it'll reduce the burden of answering to such inquiries.

  • With the help of Kenshi Muto, Fumitoshi Ukai, Ishikawa Mutsumi, Shuzo Hatta, and Yasuhiro Araki we've started the process to move the Debian trademark in Japan from individuals (who are present or past members of the Debian JP association) to SPI. That would help dealing with these matters, as well as ensure that important Debian assets are held by Debian Trusted Organizations.

  • I remind you that we've an ongoing complaint with the current registrant of debian.eu, domain that we believe Debian should legitimately own. Lawyers at SPI has now formally contacted the current owner and hopefully we'll be able to solve the issue amicably in the next months.

  • Some of the past legal advice I sought for PPA came handy in a discussion on the legal risks of running a service like mentors.debian.net, hopefully addressing part of the issues in turning that into mentors.debian.org

  • Patent policy for the Debian archive is now ready as well and I also have a patch for the website ready to be merged. I'm just waiting for the final blessing from SPI (lawyers) to go ahead and publish it.

Most of the above wouldn't have been possible without the precious help of folks at SFLC working for SPI and Debian. Be sure to thank SFLC for what they're doing for us and many other Free Software projects.

Coordination

Nobody stepped up to coordinate the artwork collection for Wheezy I've mentioned last month, so I've tried to do a little bit of that myself. The -publicity team is now preparing the call for artwork and hopefully we'll send it out RSN. In case you want to help, there is still a lot of room for that; just show up on the debian-desktop mailing list.

Sprints

A Debian Med sprint has happened in January, and Andreas Tille has provided a nice and detailed report about it. Some more sprints are forthcoming this spring, how about yours?

Money

  • We got from SPI a prepaid and rechargeable credit card that we can use for expenses or other kind of guarantees. Many thanks to Michael Schulteiss, SPI treasurer, for his help with that. Using it, we've redeemed 10k$ of credits offered to us by Amazon, that (thanks to ongoing work by Lucas Nussbaum) we're going to use to make our QA rebuilds independent from the underlying computing infrastructure.

  • Thanks to the help of Luca Capello, we advanced quite a bit on forming the Debian Event Box kit that should make it easier to set up Debian booth at FOSS events. We bought the machine for it (for about ~755 CHF) and the box to contain it will soon be on its way as well. If you're at FOSDEM, tend to the Debian booth to check it out (and possibly help out with the technical setup).

  • We've got quite a bit of donations during the December holidays. I've took the chance to thank donors, discuss what we do with donations and the status of publishing periodic Debian budgets.

  • Pinged by Yves-Alexis Perez, I've now properly documented the fact that DDs are welcome to apply for hardware sponsoring, in case the hardware can be used to help/improve their Debian work. As suggested by Yves-Alexis, you can also advocate other DDs for hw sponsoring.

  • Given hardware invariably age and that we can afford it, I've prodded DSA to prepare a general hardware replacement plan for our machines. Planning will go on this week-end and FOSDEM (thanks to Martin Zobel-Helas and Faidon Liambotis for their presence here) and I hope to have an approved machine replacement plan well before the end of the current DPL term (although I'm usually optimist...).

Important stuff going on

Other important stuff has been going on in various area of the project in January. I'd like to point your attention to a couple of things:

  • People active on debian-mentors have proposed an improved work-flow to deal with sponsoring/mentoring requests, based on the usage of a new pseudo package "sponsorship-requests". Thanks to Ansgar Burchardt, Jakub Wilk, Arno Töll, and Gregor Herrmann for working on this.

  • Raphael Hertzog has kickstarted work on DEP-2, as a way to rationalize the flow of package-related information that (co-)maintainers get. Discussion about the idea are ongoing on the debian-qa mailing list.

Miscellanea

  • Work has further progressed in reaching out to companies with an interest in giving support for, and contributing to Debian. Thanks to Alexander Wirt the technical work is now done and some sort of governance policy has been decided. Further step for me is to announce it properly hoping to reach out to as many interested companies as possible. I hope to finalize that in the next month. (If you're working for such a company and you happen to read this, feel free to reach out to me already.)

  • I've completed an old todo item setting up and documenting titanpad.debian.net, service that has been requested for collaborative work during various kinds of online events. Help is welcome to help administering the service (see doc).

  • SPI has clarified the role of project representatives and, as a consequence of that, I (as DPL) no longer receive SPI board discussions addressed to board@spi. That is good not only for the sanity of my inbox, but also because it puts all projects affiliated to SPI at the same level of communication within SPI. Thanks to Robert Brockway for his work on this.

In the unlikely case you've read thus far, thanks for your attention! Happy Debian hacking.


PS as usual, the boring day-to-day activity log is available at master:/srv/leader/news/bits-from-the-DPL.*

Posted Sat Feb 4 14:51:32 2012 Tags:

In less then 2 hours I'll leave for the Paris Nord station to catch a train headed to Bruxelles Midi. Plan of the week-end: attend and enjoy FOSDEM 2012!.

I haven't submitted any talk for this year FOSDEM edition, but I've been invited (and gladly accepted) to join the round table on working with contributor communities on Sunday. I'm positive it will be a nice occasion to share ideas on how to structure local user groups around the world.

Beside that, I plan to attend several talks of the cross-distribution, legal issues devrooms, hang around the Debian booth, as well as discuss many topics with people and friends from all over the Free Software multiverse.

Too bad I'm still recovering from a recent minor health issue; I won't be able to get the most out of today's beer event. But I'll attend nonetheless, see you there?

Posted Fri Feb 3 14:30:19 2012 Tags:

A few days ago Yves-Alexis Perez asked me how many hardware sponsorship request I usually get from Debian Developers, that is how many people ask me to use Debian money to buy material that can improve their work on Debian — and indirectly Debian itself.

The answer is "too few".
Making it easier for our developers to improve Debian is a worthwhile investment of money donated to Debian.

Of course such a use of money should be motivated (i.e. you should be able to justify how the material you're asking for would improve Debian and why it should be Debian paying for it) and transparent (i.e. you should periodically report about what you're doing with material that Debian has bought for you to use).

The above two principles are what I've tried to convey in a new section of the sponsoring guidelines wiki page I've been maintaining for a while. Comments and improvements highly welcome!

Equally welcome are advocacy messages for hardware sponsoring to other fellow Developers, as suggested by Corsac.

Posted Tue Jan 24 18:07:50 2012 Tags:

The end of the year is a period of time during which many people sit down and decide to donate some money to initiatives that pursue the public good.

I have that habit myself. At the end of 2011 I've decided to donate to Wikipedia, as I consider Wikipedia to be one of the greatest achievements of humanity and I see a lot of value in keeping it running on a purely non-profit basis. (Not to mention that it's already quite annoying to see Jimbo's banners one month per year, go figure what would happen if those banners would suddenly turn into permanent advertisement banners!)

You may wonder why I haven't donated to Debian, given my involvement in the project. In fact, that involvement is precisely why I didn't donate to Debian: there is some sort of sanity in keeping a distinction between causes to which I donate my spare time (the case of Debian) and those to which I donate money (the case of Wikipedia), and I like to keep that distinction.

As DPL, I've the luxury of being cc:-ed on Debian donation notifications that flow through SPI, and I can also check the flow of donations to other Debian trusted organizations. This year, I've been particularly impressed by the high flow of Debian donations during the end of the year. Thank you, donors, it is thanks to your generosity that we keep many Debian activities going. Using the money people like you regularly donate to Debian we:

  • buy hardware and hardware-related services that keep the Debian infrastructure running
  • sponsor sprints and other events that allow volunteer developers to get together and work on Debian in fun and productive contexts
  • support travel expenses of Debian developers that attend conferences or meetings as representatives of the Debian Project

On a more political note, I'm happy to observe that Debian incomes come almost entirely from private citizens. We do have big corporate sponsors, but their contributions tend to be concentrated as specifically earmarked donations for our annual conference. This is good for them, because they get the fancy banners on the DebConf website and at the conference. But it is also good for Debian, because a donation-based economy (as Debian's, with DebConf exception) is less likely to be influenced by the whims of a few big donors.

But with (great) donations comes (great) responsibility. In particular, it comes the need of budget transparency. You can't go out soliciting donations and simply say "thanks, your contribution is appreciated". You need to show donors how their money are used, so that they can judge whether they made the right choice in donating to you or not. Whether they will donate again in the future or not — granting long term sustainability to your project — usually depends on that.

So, if you have donated to Debian or are considering doing so in the future, here are a few of places where you can check what we have been doing with donated money:

  • Minutes of SPI monthly meetings, that come with monthly reports of incomes and expenses of all affiliated projects
  • the list of sprints, past and forthcoming
  • "Bits from the DPL" mails (indexed on the DPL "team" page), that often come with a "money" section highligthing significant expenses for the reporting period
  • the DebConf reports, that come with detailed "budgeting" sections of each DebConf edition

Albeit quite detailed, the above is not enough: we should do better on the transparency of Debian budget. For one thing, the above is too scattered: budget transparency should not depend on (potential) donors mixing and matching too many sources of information. Further more, the above is not even complete: SPI is not the only Debian trusted organization, and the accessibility of information about Debian budgets hosted at other organizations varies quite a bit.

We've been working on improving this for the past year or so: we're not there yet, but I'm positive we can have detailed and comprehensive budgets—encompassing all Debian trusted organizations—published in the coming months™.

Why has it taken so long and what could possibly be so difficult about it?

I think the cause of the delay is twofold:

  1. The disperse nature of Debian adds some difficulties to regular accounting challenges. Contrary to other FOSS projects I'm aware of, we've many different trusted organizations, each one with its own different way of reporting things. The advantage of such a setup is that we can often avoid the costs of money transfers around the world, costs in which we'd incur had we a single organization holding our assets, say, in the US. Still, having too many organizations is counterproductive. This is why for the past 1.5 years I've been working on consolidating our money assets into as few budgets as possible (avoiding, for instance, to use more than one organization per currency).

  2. We tend to be good at recruiting packaging geeks, but not so good at recruiting other kinds of geeks: budget geeks, artwork geeks, journalist geeks, management geeks, etc. But it is upon those other kinds of "geekness" that many activities of "standard" Debian geeks depend. For example: if you want to have a steady flow of new project members, you need to communicate effectively Debian values and make some buzz around them, so that you could hope they get to the right ears. If you want to organize sprints for maintainers to work together you need money donations, and to solicit donations you need a transparent budget. Etc. In the specific case of accounting, we're now lucky enough to have found "standard" Debian geeks who also have a passion for accounting and auditing; but that appaears to be, essentially, a coincidence. If we don't fix the more general problem, I believe our difficulties in recruiting "non-standard" Debian geeks might hurt us quite a bit in the long run.

Posted Sat Jan 7 18:02:02 2012 Tags:

The French government has published a call for tender for a 2 million euro contract to support Debian and CentOS systems throughout the French public administration. The news is a month old, but the call for bids is open until 9 January 2012.

There is more coverage on a EC blog post as well as on Le Monde Informatique (in French).

"Customers" of the bid winner will be almost all ministries of the French administration --- from prime minister to justice, from defense to sports, from education to culture --- for a 3-year period. The call requires ability to support most of the "usual suspects" among popular FOSS applications, but explicitly focuses on Debian and CentOS as distributions.

It is by far not the first time it has happened, but it is always great for me to see major public administrations choosing community based distros (and Debian in particular :-P ).

Posted Thu Dec 15 12:07:19 2011 Tags:

Mako's IronBlogger is a great idea. I often find myself postponing blog posts for a very long time, simply out of laziness. IronBlogger provides a nice community incentive to counter (my) laziness and blogging more often.

As a related challenge, we have to face the fact that different subsets of our communities use different media to stay informed: mailing lists, blog (aggregators), social media, IRC, etc. Disparities in how they stay informed are a pity and can be countered using multiple medias at a time. Although I haven't blogged very often as of lately, I managed to keep the Debian (Developer) community informed of what happens in "DPL land" on a monthly basis, by the means of bits from the DPL mails sent to d-d-a. While the target of bits mails perfectly fits d-d-a, there is no reason to exclude a broader public from them. After all, who knows, maybe we'll find the next DPL victim^W candidate among Planet readers!

Bonus point: blogging this also helped me realize that my mails are not as markdown-clean as I thought they were.

I still have no IronBlogger squad, though. (And sharing beers with folks in the Boston area is not terribly handy for me…). Anyone interested in setting up a BloggeurDeFer in the Paris area? (SCNR)


Dear Project Members,
another month has passed, it's time to bother you again about what has happened in DPL land in November (this time, with even less delay than the last one, ah!).

Call for Help: press/publicity team

I'd like to highlight the call for help by the press / publicity teams. They are "hiring" and have sent out a call for new members a couple of weeks ago. The work they do is amazing and is very important for Debian, as important as maintaining packages or fixing RC bugs during a freeze. It is only by letting the world know what Debian is and what we do, that we can keep the Project thriving. And letting the world know is exactly what the publicity and press teams do. If you're into writing, blogging, or simply have a crush for social media, please read the call and "apply"!

Interviews

November has apparently been the "let's interview the DPL" month. I've spent quite some time giving interviews to interested journalists about various topics. For both my embarrassment and transparency on what I've said on behalf of Debian, here are the relevant links:

Assets

  • the Video Team sprint approved in October has happened at beginning of November; report is still pending but the organizers are on it

  • Christian Perrier reported about his trip to India mini-DebConf, even that he attended on behalf of the Project. I find amazing both the outcome of the event and Christian's report, a very good example of how to inform the Project when acting on behalf of it

  • the hardware replacement for {ftp,lists}.d.o I've mentioned last month has been ordered, has arrived, and DSA have already put their hands on it for the setup. Many thanks to DSA and in particular to Martin Zobel-Helas for the logistics

  • as an administratrivia, I've asked SPI to setup for Debian a "gift" credit card, i.e. a credit card with a limited, refillable budget. It is needed for using (with a safeguard) credits offered to the Project by public cloud providers (e.g. AWS' donation), as well as to use various kinds of services that we need from time to time

Legal advice (work in progress)

  • I've sought and got from a former SPI lawyer a first legal advice on the relationships among trademark law and the procedures of a Free Software distro like Debian when distributing software subject to trademarks. I'm still waiting to seek a second advice from the current SPI lawyers (whom I've been keeping busy with other stuff). In the meantime I've pending a summary of what I've got thus far in the trademark-vs-DFSG thread. Stay tuned there!

  • I've been working with SPI lawyers on a proposal of software patent policy that I think we should advertise to make explicit the position of the Debian Project on software patents. I see it as a continuation/completion of the FAQ we have already published on the subject. I'll let you know as soon as we reach a stable draft, that should be pretty soon.

Relationships with others

  • I've been approached by members of the board of the OpenSource Initiative (OSI), about the soon to be open OSI affiliation program. They'd like to know if Debian is interested in being affiliated to OSI. I think we should and I'll eventually start a discussion on this topic. In the meantime, I welcome feedback from anyone who is interested in the topic.

  • Thanks to the interest of Andrew Pollock, LaMont Jones, Florian Weimer and the Security Team, we are discussing with ISC to have Debian --- as a project, rather than as individuals who just happen to maintain ISC software in Debian --- become member of all forums relevant for software we distribute (BIND, NTP, DHCP). They are doing all the coordination work, but I've anticipated I'll be happy to pledge for Debian membership.

  • I've taken the first step to reach out to companies that have a strategic interest in Debian. According to discussion I've had with representative of such companies, they often face similar challenges in offering Debian support and in contributing back to Debian. I think we should offer a forum for them to discuss and find synergies, as well as explain our needs to them. An official mailing list might be such a place.

    Once we have a suitable forum ready, I'll propose to the press team to send out a corresponding call for companies. In the meantime, if you happen to know, or even work for, companies that might be interested, please ask them to get in touch with me.

Miscellanea

  • I've had a chance to discuss with the editors of the SPDX specification about its relationship with DEP-5. Thanks to the help of Dominique Dumont work is already in progress to have a mutual converter among the two formats. Also, although with some bumps, work on finalizing DEP-5 has finally restarted.

  • an interesting thread of a while ago is in need of some work to produce a useful outcome, i.e. a set of security guidelines for DDs. If you're willing to help, have a look at the thread

  • some more mediation-fu has been going on during November; have a look at my daily logs below if you care about the details

Thanks for reading thus far,
and happy hacking.


PS as usual, the boring day-to-day activity log is available at master:/srv/leader/news/bits-from-the-DPL.*

Posted Sun Dec 11 22:50:46 2011 Tags:

I'm not exactly green, and yet the first time a given mister became prime minister of my country I didn't even have the right to vote.

Now, I just feel relieved.

Posted Sat Nov 12 22:16:01 2011 Tags:

Qual è la logica delle dimissioni a tempo?

L'argomento principale per giustificare le dimissioni a tempo sembra essere che l'attuale governo possa in qualche modo comportarsi (finalmente!) in maniera responsabile ed aiutare a far passare la legge di stabilità, legge che tutti spacciano come molto urgente. Quindi meglio andare con ordine, prima il governo aiuta il paese con tale legge, poi si dimette. Giusto?

Manco per idea!

L'utilità del governo—o meglio, del consiglio dei ministri—nel fare passare le leggi si esprime solo quando possiamo fare l'assunzione che il consiglio dei ministri sia espressione della volontà politica della maggioranza. (Già questa interpretazione del ruolo del governo è una stortura—le leggi dovrebbe comunque farle il parlamento—ma accettiamola per seguire la retorica che ci stanno propinando in queste ore.)

In questa fase contingente, è chiaro come il governo non corrisponda più alla maggioranza esistente in parlamento. Per fare passare la legge di stabilità è quindi necessario cercare un accordo tra le forze della (vecchia) maggioranza e dell'opposizione. Un tale accordo non si può certo cercare in consiglio dei ministri, in quanto l'opposizione lì non è rappresentata. Luoghi politici più adatti per cercare l'accordo sulla legge di stabilità sono quindi le commissioni parlamentari, o l'assemblea dei capigruppo, se non addirittura un bar qualsiasi dove radunare i segretari dei partiti maggiormente rappresentati in parlamento.

Le dimissioni a tempo non hanno quindi alcuna utilità. Mi stupisce che il Presidente della Repubblica non lo abbia osservato, cosciente com'è sia della forma che dei principi della Costituzione.

Le dimissioni a tempo sono in fondo solo un'altra espressione di un presunto centrismo governativo, del fatto che nella democrazia vista dal berlusconismo la sovranità popolare non è esercitata dal parlamento ma dal governo (se non addirittura dal presidente del consiglio dei ministri).

Posted Wed Nov 9 12:16:08 2011 Tags:

A while ago I've been interviewed for a forthcoming article in the LinuxUser magazine on the topic of why there are so many Debian derivatives and on the potential impact, on them, of the (potential) advent of the so called "Debian Rolling" experiment.

Below you can find my take on those topics. Questions are by Ferdinand Thommes, who has been involved in various Debian derivatives, including the forthcoming Siduction.


1.) Why do you think people base distributions on Debian? Looking at how many there is, since Corel and Libranet set sail in 1999, there must be a reason why, for one, people fork Debian in the first place, and secondly, why they choose Debian to do so and not some other distribution.

There are always advantages in creating a so called "derivative" distribution with respect to creating one from scratch. The main one is the possibility of reusing the packaging work which is already done in the "upstream" distro, focusing derivatives' efforts on customization, usually with clear target public in mind. Debian pushes most of those advantages (for derivatives) at their extremes.

  • The Debian archive is huge (about 30'000 packages with Squeeze), meaning that the amount of packaging work that can be reused is similarly huge.

  • Debian has a long history and a well established community, which reduces the risk of "betting" the efforts of derivatives on a distro that might disappear anytime soon.

  • Debian is well known for its obsession with package quality, meaning that the risk of trusting pre-existing packages is greatly reduced, and that package behavior is on average very dependable as well as documented in standard documents such as the Debian Policy

  • Debian is also well known for its obsession with licensing, at the point of being considered by many one of the authoritative sources for deciding what constitutes Free Software and what does not. For derivatives that implies that they do not need to worry---as long as they trust Debian, of course---neither about legal redistribution risks nor about software freedom claims on their distro.

But there are also a couple of "political" reasons for basing derivatives on Debian. One is quite subtle and applies mostly to commercial distributions. If you are designing one such commercial distro, you have to be based on an independent distro with no commercial interests, lest risking that petty (technical or otherwise) choices might be made just to undermine your business. Among "popular" GNU/Linux distros, Debian is essentially the only one which is both volunteer-based and not ascribable to any specific company.

The last reason why I think many derivatives are based on Debian is our vocation to universality. Since we are not targeting any specific public, but rather trying to provide an operating system suitable for several different use cases (e.g. the tasks supported by the Debian installer or the choice of Debian Pure Blends), we offer an ideal starting point for those who are going to have customization as their main business.

2.) What could be the benefits for Debian and for its Derivates, if the discussions about a second Debian Release based on the Testing branch really come to be reality?

We are considering the possibility of adding a new Debian suite which is "rolling" like Testing, in the sense that new software releases flow in regularly rather than only at periodic bumps corresponding to major distribution releases. There seem to be user demand for that and I personally believe that such a scheme could address the needs of both advanced desktop users and of developers, which are now strand to mix and match Debian suites ending up using package combinations which benefit, as a whole, of very little quality check. The main issues to face to get there is how to make sure that adding such a suite would not get in the way of preparing high quality Stable releases, in terms of quality control, developer focus, etc.

Note that such a hypothetical "rolling" suite needs does not necessarily need to be based on Debian Testing, although that is a good starting point. The reason why it's not a good endpoint is that Testing has been created (circa 2000), and is still used, as an internal tool to prepare the forthcoming Debian Stable release. As such, it is not entirely suitable for final user consumption. For instance, during the Debian "freeze" period the flow of new software releases that reach Testing is greatly reduced up to stopping completely just before the release of a new Debian Stable. I've been told that users of testing-based (derivative) rolling releases regularly complain about this aspect during Debian freezes, which is not surprising.

The main advantage for derivatives which are already offering a Debian-based "rolling" release will then be the possibility of basing their work on a suite less bound to the life cycle of Debian Stable than Testing is at present. On the converse side, that would also mean that derivatives will need to differentiate more from Debian than by just saying they are "rolling", which is a good thing: differences among distros are healthy and drive innovation. With those derivatives, on the other hand, which will recognize their goals as being aligned with Debian's goals---Debian Stable today, maybe Debian "rolling" tomorrow---we will be happy to join efforts.

Posted Mon Sep 19 12:24:21 2011 Tags:

Podcast Caterpillar non ufficiale 2011-2012

A partire da domani, torna il mio feed Caterpillar non ufficiale. (Seguite il link per tutte le motivazioni ed i disclaimer del caso.)

Lo trovate al solito URL. Visto lo sdoppiamento di Caterpillar — che mi induce ad un profondo ed imperituro lutto per il divorzio Cirri-Solibello — il feed conterrà entry sia per Caterpillar che per il nuovo Caterpillar AM.

Buon ascolto.

Posted Tue Sep 13 19:56:57 2011 Tags: